Virginia News Source - Cold snap slows petition drive

wally erb - Download a petition

|192.91.173.36 |01-11-2010 12:59:54

Download a Petition form
Light Rail petition form.
Print front and back on 8.5 x 11 paper by printing side 1 then re-inserting paper in your printer and printing side 2 on reverse.
Turn in, full or partially full, petition(s) to the voter registrar where they will notarize (free) and accept your petition for verification.Or call 581-4287 for free petition pickup and notary services.

Mike Barrett - Cold snap my...

|216.54.27.206 |01-11-2010 13:20:58

Point is Wally, even in the midst of the accusations against HRT for poor management, the citizens are clearly able to clearly differentiate between the imperative for light rail to be extended to the Beach from the travails of the management of HRT.

Just like your friends in the VBTA, your attempts to swim against the Tide on this issue will be the end of any influence you both may once have had.

Frankly, your solid and vehement opposition against this popular initiative is as odd as it is disconcerting; that is, transit oriented development will dramatically increase the commercial tax base, bringing real estate tax relief, and all segments of the community support it.

You should get aboard as well. MJB sends!

Wally Erb - I don't understand?

|192.31.106.34 |01-12-2010 08:44:18

MJB, Raymond, and Rick:

It appears that my advocacy for the electorate to express an opinion through a referendum has summarily been equated to opposition to the Light Rail Project.
Are you Light Rail that fear a public referendum will yield an adverse affect???

Mike Barrett - We are a Republic

|216.54.27.206 |01-12-2010 14:15:25

As such, we elect representatives who are supposed to vote in the public interest. I oppose referenda on principle as direct democracy is all sail and no anchor.

That said, I happen to beleive that if a referendum is held, it will pass. Polling data reveals strong support for light rail. Of course, I advocate for the City, not HRT, to do the project management.

Henry Ryto - Puh-leeze!

|76.161.1.44 |01-12-2010 16:47:02

Last year the VBTA claimed it was taking a neutral "wait and see" position on LRT until the Supplemental Draft Environmental Impact Study (SDEIS) was done. Last Wednesday the VBTA dropped the charade, formally coming out against LRT before even the Alternatives Analysis (AA) was done.

Now the VBTA front group trying to petition a referendum question onto the ballot for November wants to feign neutrality, claiming it's simply about allowing a vote. The ploy is every bit as phony as the VBTA's since-dropped "wait and see" gambit.

Wally, you're fooling no one but yourself.

Raymond Carter - Economics

|67.62.94.176 |01-11-2010 15:54:40

Living in Chesapeake, I don't have to worry about this issue now, but what I don't seem to see is either Wally Erb or Michael Barrett discussing is: (1) What is the projected cost per passenger? (2) What is the projected price per ride? (3) Will ridership be subsidized? (4) By how much? per rider and what is the estimated subsidy per year? (5) Who is going to ride it from Newtown Rd. to the Oceanfront? & Vice Versa? It doesn't seem to me either of you guys know what you're talking about if you can't answer these ques.
Raymond Carter - Chesapeake

Mike Barrett - Premature

|216.54.27.206 |01-11-2010 16:15:46

Fact is, the questions you pose, and many others, are under study now as part of the EIS. These meetings are public meetings which many interested in this project have attended. As I understand it, a draft will be ready for review and public comment in the fall.

Of course, given that the Commonwealth is simply out of the road building business, light rail is the only option in this corridor and it is well supported by the citizens of the Beach who envision the future connection to high speed rail at Harbor Park as well.

Raymond Carter - Economics

|67.62.94.176 |01-11-2010 17:32:25

Then why are you and Wally Erb being so adamant, one aggressively supporting light rail and the other just as aggressively opposing it, when neither of you has any information on which to base your opinions? That's the part, maybe, that I can't seem to understand. You guys are ragging each other over something neither one of you know anything about.

Raymond Carter - Chesapeake

Mike Barrett - OK to wait

|216.54.27.206 |01-12-2010 10:44:10

Raymond, Wally and I always discuss issues of importance to the community. In this case, my personal experience with light rail in other communities, and my knowledge of the transit oriented development stimulus to the development community that will increase the commercial tax base and reduce taxes, conspire to make me a proponent. Wally is more cautious and proclaims neutrality until the EIS is complete.

Feel free to comment if you like; if you want to wait for the EIS, that is OK as well. MJB sends!

Raymond Carter

|67.62.94.176 |01-12-2010 11:54:42

Well, I can't disagree with that approach. Conversation is always preferable to fighting. Obviously, you people should talk about the issue and looks like you have a lot to say. Thanks.

Raymond

Rick Sayers - Have you used light rail to commute

|67.62.94.176 |01-11-2010 15:58:58

Yeah, Raymond raises some interesting questions, I haven't seen discussed. I have another one: Have you (Wally Erb or Michael Barrett) ever used light rail to commute to work?

Rick - Virginia Beach

Mike Barrett - public transit

|216.54.27.206 |01-11-2010 16:18:36

Yes, I have used public transit to commute to work. Frankly, when you have an hour or more commute, the ability to simply relax on the train, read the paper, enjoy coffee and a bagel, is just fine.

Contrast that with an hour and a half commute in the car, heavy congestion, tunnels, and the need to pay for parking at the other end.

Light rail will do just fine here.

Wally Erb - Strange

|68.10.228.45 |01-11-2010 18:59:03

As an experienced mass transit rider MJB, where did find a system that allowed the consumption of food and beverages in transit?

Wally Erb - Thanks for the question, Rick

|68.10.228.45 |01-11-2010 18:46:42

Riding Metros and Light rails is not a new experience. I've ridden light rail in San Diego, Seattle, trolley cars in San Francisco, (as well as in the Bronx and Manhattan before they werecreplaced with electric buses then diesel buses. Also Metros in Rome, Nice, New York, Chicago, and DC.

Wally Erb - just a Referendum.

|68.10.228.45 |01-11-2010 18:54:52

Rick and Raymond, I am not advocating, at this juncture, a pro or con position on the Virginia Beach light rail. I am advocating the opportunity for the Virginia Beach electorate to express their opinion of the development of Virginia Beach which would include light rail. I am following the provisions as provided for in the Virginia Code and city charter.

wally erb - There You go again.

|68.10.228.45 |01-12-2010 18:16:09

MJB:
I expect a little better from you. Yes, the federal government is a republic. However the Commonwealth and the city charter provide for referendum which is democratic. Jeez o'Pete MBJ, you can do better than that! You must have cut the poly psy classes.

Mike Barrett

|216.54.27.206 |01-13-2010 11:40:43

Of course I do not make the argument that referenda are not allowed, I simply beleive that a referendum on an important community issue not the best way to ensure the public interest.

Referenda are usually decided by the very small turnouts of people on the extremes of the issue. Better for elected officials to listen deliberate, investigate, debate, and then decide what is best for the city. MJB sends!

Wally Erb - Commonwealth Constitution and City Charter

|67.62.94.176 |01-13-2010 08:43:43

If you feel that strongly that checks and balances are in place at the local and state level as in the federal republic, I suggest that you pursue a Commonwealth Constitutional and Virginia Beach City Charter change which require referenda on specific bonding issues.

wally erb - Who's the fool?

|68.10.228.45 |01-12-2010 18:24:38

Gee Henry,

You need to get a new line. I'm not even an active member of the VBTA any more. I'm the rogue, wild cannon, unguided missile. I will show up for the 3 dollar breakfast, who wouldn't?
No, Henry, this not a front, back, or side group. This is active, interested citizens, most of whom don't know who the VBTA is. Who's trying to fool who?